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[Sermon] Room in the Net

Updated: Jul 27

Pastor Hector Garfias-Toledo & Bruce Sutherland



In a live conversation with congregation member Bruce Sutherland, as part of our Conversations on the Road series, Pastor Hector explores Matthew's parables of the mustard seed, the yeast, and the net cast into the sea. Together they wonder whether God's reign is bigger, and more inclusive, than we're comfortable imagining, and whether the ones doing the judging might be surprised by who else is in the net.



Sermon Transcript

From YouTube's automatic captions, lightly edited by AI for readability.


HECTOR: Grace to you and peace from God. Abba, Father, Mother, Creator, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who reminds us that the reign of God is among us. And we say, Amen.

 

Well, today is again one of those Sundays of conversations on the road. And again, this is an opportunity for us as church, as the people of God, not the building. Although the building belongs to God, as Asher said, it's when the people come together and walk together, trying to make sense of what we are learning together through the Spirit here in this place.

 

So today we have Bruce, a brother of mine that I have met, of course, since I came to Trinity. Although maybe we met before I came to Trinity: who knows? But it's really a joy, and I thank you, Bruce, for being willing to share this time with our congregation.

 

You and I have started this conversation for about two or three weeks, and every time that we meet, I feel that we discover something new when we read the Scripture, and a new idea comes. You put some new questions in my head. I start looking at things from a different perspective, and sometimes I don't have answers to my own questions. But I think that's what the Spirit is about.

 

Just a quick reminder, and then Bruce is going to tell us a little bit more about himself and why he felt that this passage spoke to him. But what I would like to ask you to keep in mind as we are here is to remember the sequence that we have been seeing in the Gospel according to Matthew, and today with the Scripture in the book of First Kings, with King Solomon.

 

Solomon: the words of King Solomon, as you know, have been used since I was a kid, and maybe since you were kids, to teach us that Solomon had the right answer before God, because he was asking for wisdom to understand God. But at the same time, if you go a few more pages in the book of First Kings, you start seeing that he seems to have forgotten wisdom really fast, and he starts going downhill really, really fast.

 

Maybe I'm thinking that in these passages that we are reading, the Lord is inviting us to remember that God's promise works through and in spite of our flawed kings, or flawed members of the church. And Jesus tells us that we are called to embody the covenant of love that God has always shown us in Jesus. And I think that has been part of our conversation.

 

So Bruce, can you tell us a little bit, for those in the congregation who may not know you, a little bit of who you are, and how these passages spoke to you, and why?

 

BRUCE: Well, I see in the bulletin it has a little bit about who I am. Just to clarify one thing: it said I'm waiting on another great-grandchild, who was actually born on Thursday. So now I have two great-grandchildren.

 

I've been a member here fifty years. During that time, there have been several pastors, most of whom I've really appreciated. Some, maybe not as much. [laughter] That's me. No, the reason I said I would do this is because you're one that I have really appreciated. Back towards the start of June into May, you said you had two dates you needed someone for. And like an idiot, I said I'd be happy to do that. [laughter] You didn't know what you signed up for. So, yes, because I thought it would be something else, but here I am. [laughter] That's what I get for opening my mouth. Well, whatever happens here, I believe is what the Spirit knows that we need today.

 

So, yes. I basically had the choice of choosing between the verses in Matthew or the other verses. I chose the verses in Matthew because I'm the type of person that tends to look at things more in shades of gray than just black and white. As an example, the verse when they're throwing out the net and gathering the fish. In a way, that could not only be like end times, but I feel it could also be now. We throw out the word: some people will respond, some won't. But I kind of thought, how I interpret things, there may be more people in heaven than what some other people think are going to be there.

 

This got us talking about our image of heaven. It kind of evolved, because in a way, I think I'm going to be running, perfect physical body, through the meadows, up in the mountains, jumping over streams, and there's my mother, or my grandmother, and I see them. But, you know, maybe we'll just get there and God's glory will be so great that all we see is this light, and we don't notice that our favorite dog's not there or anything. So there's many ways I think you can look at any one of these passages.

 

HECTOR: Yeah. After our last conversation, you got me to think about something that I didn't think of when you were talking in our first conversations. The question that I got was, later in the net, you said something like, many people, unfortunately, seem to be really invested in trying to make the reign of God, or the kingdom of God, smaller and narrower. But you said, and I think this is what the Gospel is about, not to try to exclude people.

 

BRUCE: So that made me think, okay, so Jesus is talking about throwing the net, then there will be good fish and bad fish. We were talking about people, if we compare that with people, and I was thinking, the only thing the Scripture doesn't tell us, when it talks about the gnashing of teeth and the weeping, is who will be gnashing their teeth and weeping.

 

Then I thought, maybe the righteous are the ones who are gnashing their teeth, because they will see that the reign of God is catching and bringing in the people that they didn't want to see in heaven. [laughter]

 

HECTOR: I agree with that. I think, somewhat, because this was written so long ago. Even the first parable, about the mustard seed, how it starts small, the kingdom, or the reign of God, is still expanding. Because back then it was very limited. Now it's growing. It's still growing.

 

BRUCE: I think, tying in here, and you're talking about the righteous maybe being the people that are going to be judged, the very last phrase, which I have a little more trouble interpreting, talks about the scribes bringing out old and new treasures.

 

I'm in the process of reading a chronological Bible, and obviously it's going through time, so I'm in the Old Testament still: it's Jeremiah. I'm actually a couple days ahead, because I'm always afraid, what if I get too busy and forget to read? So I want to stay caught up there. Today's reading, which is a couple days from now, was Jeremiah 8:8–9, and it was talking about scribes, and they were really blasted [laughter], about the scribes who follow the law being so evil, whereas, compared to here, the scribes are people who are going to bring out treasures old and new.

 

I just feel this whole, all these parables, makes everything more inclusive than how some people would look at it.

 

HECTOR: Inclusive in which way, do you think?

 

BRUCE: Well, there's people that are very judgmental, as far as, if you are this type of person, you aren't making it. If you don't do enough of this, you're not making it. In the middle parables here, it talks about how the kingdom of heaven is so valuable we should really commit to it. There are all levels of commitment, and how people commit in various stages. There could be someone that sweeps the floor at a church. You might think they're not committing like the missionary that goes far away and endures terrible conditions to help convert people, but they're all doing God's work. So I feel everybody's included in there.

 

HECTOR: Yeah. You also got me to think about the reign of God as this power, this new reality, this new order that is constantly unfolding. Every time, I almost see it like a carpet that is unrolling, and as the time is unrolling, there's life, just sprouting. Really, the affirmation, the promise, is that it is not the end, what we are experiencing right now. So the reign of God, there is nothing that is going to stop it. It's unstoppable. The reign of God is uncontrollable.

 

The parables themselves make me think of that, because if you look at the different parables that we read today, the seed, or the mustard seed, or the yeast, or even the person who finds this treasure, it's not like everything is planned. Things happen, maybe, in unpredictable, messy ways, in ways that nothing is going to stop them. They continue to do the work, and they are going to produce life, joy, abundance, feed the people. It's like the promise of God from the very beginning, when God says, be fruitful, multiply, steward creation, and let everybody live in the shalom and the well-being. That kingdom keeps going.

 

So I remember you said something like, God loves us so much that God wants us with Godself, and it's not going to stop. [laughter]

 

BRUCE: Yes. Well, yes, God loves us so much God sent the only Son to save us. Even in these parables, because if you were just following the rules, why would they talk about a person using yeast to make bread? Because that would be against the rules. Yet Christ is acknowledging this person, and using that person to spread the message.

 

HECTOR: Yeah. And the yeast, at some point, was considered something bad. The image of the yeast was also used as bringing harm to the community, to the people, right? And here, Jesus, the reign of God is like yeast. So there is no limitation for God to use whatever, including King Solomon. And if King Solomon is going to be caught in the net, well, I think that there's room for us too. [laughter]

 

BRUCE: Yes. Well, as you read in the Old Testament, pretty, by most standards, I think all the really great people have a lot of evil in them. Look at David: he looked at Bathsheba, had her husband killed. Yet, because they partially followed God, they were accepted. So I think the net's going to be very wide, but a lot of people will be accepted.

 

HECTOR: Yeah. And as I said, probably those who thought, "I'm so glad that I was caught in the net, I'm a righteous one," will start gnashing their teeth when they see, "oh, but I thought that you were not going to be in this net with me." [laughter]

 

BRUCE: Right. [laughter]

 

HECTOR: Yeah. No, but you're right. If we look back, we can see in the history, in the stories that we have of the people of Israel, that God works through people who, on the one hand, seem to be bringing harm, injustice, even death. St. Paul, for example, was used by God to become an instrument of God's grace, and healing, and restoration. We see that God used Cyrus, one of the Assyrian kings that dominated the Israelites, to work for Him. He called him, God calls him even Messiah, according to the prophet.

 

So we can see that there is nothing that is going to stop God, in spite of us. God will continue, as our young worshippers were saying, to be in us, around us. I think our goal, our call, and the challenge, probably, that Jesus brings to us, is how you and I are going to be agents, catalysts, facilitators, announcers of this reign that is constantly unfolding.

 

BRUCE: Yes. And people can announce and spread the word in different ways, but God can use all of us.

 

HECTOR: Absolutely. So, one thing to conclude: how is this passage calling you personally? How do you feel that this passage is calling you personally to live out this good news that today the Gospel brings to us?

 

BRUCE: That's an excellent question. [laughter]

 

HECTOR: Do I ask rhetorical questions, and the question is for everyone? We're here on the time limit.

 

BRUCE: I'd ask everybody for their answers, and I'd choose the best one. [laughter]

 

HECTOR: So, Rick, what do you think?

 

BRUCE: Right. Well, I'm here today talking, so obviously somehow he reached out to me and asked. I should continue. I feel it kind of asks us to live a life in a way that others see us, and possibly, if we're not the type that wants to go out and be real evangelical, people might see something in our life that they ask us about, and we can spread the word that way.

 

HECTOR: So I can say, confidently, when somebody asks how the reign of God looks like, I will say: the reign of God is like the life of Bruce, who every day reflects God's mercy and love and grace in a world that pushes us to hate each other, separate and divide each other. Bruce, with his words and his actions, is showing us what the reign of God is like. So I will use that.

 

Thank you, and thanks be to God for sharing with this congregation what is in your heart. The conversation on the road continues, and I hope that we can have another opportunity to continue this conversation.

 

HECTOR: All right. Thank you.

 

BRUCE: Thank you.

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