[Sermon] Even When We Can't

Pastor Hector Garfias-Toledo & Rachel Tobin + May 18, 2025

Fifth Sunday of Easter

Jesus gave us a new commandment: love one another. But what happens when we just… can’t? In this conversational sermon, Pastor Hector and Rachel Tobin speak candidly about the struggle to love in the face of conflict, disappointment, and exhaustion. Drawing from the Gospel and personal experience, they remind us that love is not merely a feeling—it’s a divine calling that requires God’s strength, not just our own. This first installment of the “Conversations on the Road” series opens space for wrestling and wondering, modeling how real faith is forged in honest conversation. Love may be hard, but with God, it is possible.

Sermon Transcript

From YouTube's automatically generated captions, lightly edited by AI for readability.

Pastor Hector: Well, we are walking a journey, but today we are going to make a pause. We are going to sit. And we are going to sit here to talk. Have a seat, Rachel. This is closer than I imagined—closer.

Grace to you from Abba—Father, Mother, Creator—and the Lord Jesus Christ, who, again, people keep saying that he is around, walking, and showing up in places... and maybe in your lives. And the people of God said: Amen.

Well, here we are. And we are going to do something different. You saw in the newsletter that today we are going to spend a little time wrestling with God’s Word. And I believe that’s what the Lord Jesus invited us to do. I invite you to join Rachel and me in this conversation—maybe raising some questions, and maybe learning, as we also learn from you.

The images that we hear in the passages that we read this past Sunday—and this Sunday—we have these images of big crowds that are worshiping all day, for eternity. We hear about new heaven and new earth, and the city of Jerusalem coming down from— from— from heaven.

And all these images evoke wonder and questions in our hearts and in our minds, because they convey a mystery. They convey some awe. We are left with the question:

What does it really mean to be one great people of God?

Right. Exactly. God has come to dwell with God’s people. What implications does it have in the way that we look, relate to creation, and to one another? Is that a far future event, or something that is already taking place here—in us and through us?

Today’s Gospel, I believe, addresses some of those questions, and yet still raises some questions in our minds:

Can we really love each other? What kind of love is Jesus talking about?

So Rachel, for the past few weeks, you and I have been reading the passages, and we’ve been wrestling with them. Rachel—as you know her—is with us, interpreting, in some way experiencing and extending the love of Jesus through her gift of interpretation. And perhaps, because you cannot talk during those times when you're interpreting, we cannot hear what is going through your mind too.

But in our conversations, you and I were talking about some of the things and some of the questions that these passages raise in our hearts.

So as you were reading these passages—what came to your mind? What was crossing your heart?

Rachel Tobin: Well, you know, I should say—Pastor Hector and I, we got to know each other over the past few years in Bible study. And so I go on Wednesdays, most Wednesdays, and there’s a few people like Pastor Hector who know a lot about what we’re reading and about these passages.

And then there’s people in the middle who know some, and then, you know, have questions and are there to learn. And then at the whole other end of the spectrum, there’s me.

And so when he asked me to do this I’m like, "Well I don’t— you know— I don’t know anything." And he goes, "Well, we’ll just read the passage, and you just talk about how it applies to your life or what it makes you think."

And of course, the part that stood out to me was—you know what David just talked about—was the, you know, loving one another, and you know, as God loved us. And what that looks like.

Pastor Hector: Yeah. Yeah. And that’s one of the reasons that for me also—reading this passage—I mean, the question is really, as I said earlier:

What does it mean to love one another? And what does Jesus mean when he says, “Love one another”?

Rachel Tobin: Well, you know, for me, the way I know how to love one another is through service. It’s through acts of service.

And I suppose just a little background—I don’t want to talk the whole time—but I’ll just tell you a little background about how that applies to me:

So I was working for Seattle School District in 2020. And on March 11—it was a Wednesday—they sent everybody home, and it was going to be for two weeks, and then we were—everything was going to go back to normal. And so I thought I was just getting, like, a vacation.

Well, I was a contractor at the time. And as you all know—we never went back. And then everything changed for the next couple of years.

So, while the government was trying to figure out what was going on, all the people who worked for the Seattle School District were still getting paid. But as a contractor—you know—I have to look at what I get paid for a school year and then budget that out for the whole year. And so all of a sudden there’s three and a half months of income that I was counting on that I wasn’t getting.

And I live alone. I don’t even have a cat. So all of a sudden, you know, they tell us to stay home, and it became—I'm a social person—and it became very easy for me to start isolating.

Even my parents were over 65—so don’t see them. I had no accountability. I had no responsibility. I was in financial fear. I was just in fear of the uncertainties of what was going on—all the chaos in the world.

And so what happened was—my prayers had to change. Because I had a choice: it was like, curl into this ball of self-pity and fear, or see what I can do to be useful.

And so I used to pray, you know, in the morning, I’d be like, “Okay, God—you know—what will you have me do today?” And I’d go to work and I’d do things and I’d help people.

And then all of a sudden I’m home alone, and my prayers had to change to like, “What will you have me be today?”

And that means: what kind of thoughts and feelings am I going to allow to fester? Am I going to—like I said—be in fear and self-pity? How can I help?

And at the same time, you know, I’m watching the news, and you’re hearing about anxiety, depression, suicide rates skyrocketing. And so I became a volunteer at the King County Crisis Line.

And at that around that same time, I get an email from Pastor Hector. Now—I didn’t know Pastor Hector. I knew there was a newer pastor at the church, but we had never met. We didn’t know each other.

And I get this email from him: “Hey Rachel, I ran into your dad today. He told me what you did for a living. I was wondering if, as part of your ministry, you wanted to come and interpret our services—because nobody could gather in church.”

And I’m like, “I didn’t know I was on a ministry…”

But I have, you know, been taught that you say yes when somebody asks you to help. And I had asked God, “What can I do?” So I said, “Okay.”

So I’d show up on Sundays, and it would just be a couple guys on the skeleton crew and the pastor and I, up here in an empty, you know, church, doing these things.

And so what happened is—I got busy doing God’s work. And for five and a half hours every week, I would drive to Belltown, and I would talk to people that were in crisis and having a much worse time than I was having.

And then I would come here on Sundays, and I would interpret the sermons so people could stream it on YouTube from home.

And doing that—day after day, and week after week—and suddenly, I didn’t have those same fears and those same anxieties. I felt like I was being useful. I felt like I was helping people.

And what happened was—you know—I’d go to bed at night thinking I was helping people. And I’d wake up—and I was healed. And I didn’t have those same things.

And so that trajectory just kept me— Where can I be useful?

And I think, you know, being of service to people—that’s God’s love made visible. That’s how I know how to love people. Is just… through service.

Pastor Hector: That’s—that’s true. And I have heard the stories through my ministries in congregations—but also through my ministry when I was in and serving in Chicago.

As you probably remember, I used to actually work with pastors. And one of the things that was one of the hardest conversations that sometimes I had—not only because of their work, or pastors who were starting congregations or going through some renewal in some congregations—it was also for me:

I learned that when we go to congregations, we need to first learn to love people. Because if we don’t learn to love people, it’s hard to do ministry.

As you said, Rachel, when that connection happens—when we enter the stories of others, when we feel with them—the stories in the scripture that tell us we need to laugh with one another, cry with one another…

Those are the moments when we are able to be vulnerable with one another. And that’s when the love becomes real.

It was hard because some people—some pastors—came and they wanted to do all the aspects of the church, whether it was administration or leadership or move people. But I said, I had to ask—and I was asked several times—"Have you taken the time to learn to love people?" And so many times, the answer was, "No, I’ve been too busy."

Rachel: Well, let me ask you—I mean, I wonder, like, as a pastor you're almost held to a higher expectation, you know? And frankly, some people are just easier to love than others. So how—how do you—you’re always—anybody here knows Pastor Hector’s always so kind, and he always makes you feel like, you know, he’s seen you and he’s heard you. But you’re human too. Like, you have hard days, you have bad days, you have your own things. How do you, like, constantly just, like, love people at that next level?

Pastor Hector: Okay, Rachel, we said that you didn’t ask that question.

Rachel (laughing): Oh, did we?

Pastor Hector: No, true! Not true. No—when we were reflecting, part of this question came in our conversations. And I think that was exactly what I wanted to happen. And I hope that will continue to happen for us—that we are able to ask these real questions about our faith journey. Because I think that’s the only way that we are able to grow, that we are able to really wrestle with this new commandment that Jesus is giving us.

You are right. I can say also, in serving in several congregations, I have found times when it’s hard to love everyone in the congregation. When you hear messages, as a pastor, of people who tell you:

“Great that you are here, but we are leaving… until you leave this congregation.”

Or:

“Yes, glad that you’re here to lead us, but I’m going to do whatever I want.”

Or, in my case, when I’ve heard people in congregations that tell me:

“Why are you here?”

It’s hard to love people.

Rachel: Do you find—you know, when I try to love people on my own self-will, and I’m just trying to—that starts to look like I’m just trying to be patient with people and I’m just biting my tongue a lot, which means by the end of the day my tongue’s full of holes. So, you know, but when I let God in—that means like, if God gets bigger, I get smaller. You know? I have to get smaller for God to get bigger. And it’s easier to love people when—and it’s easier to meet people where they’re at if I can see them the way God sees them.

Because I cannot do it on my own. I cannot just love people—I’m not that good, you know? I have to let God in. And, you know, when I allow that, it’s like my capacity, my empathy, you know, it opens my mind and my heart—like you always say every Sunday. But like, I need God’s help to do that. I can’t do that on my own.

Pastor Hector: No, you’re right. And—and that’s what I was thinking the second part of this answer was. That the reading that we had in the book of Revelation has been one of the anchors in my faith journey to try to understand how, as you said, you can remain standing in situations when you know that you cannot love people, or that people are not going to love you.

When I hear the words again—that God has come to dwell with us, to be God's people—I am reminded that the reason that Jesus gave his life is for us to see that in God, all is possible. That God’s love transforms lives—and my heart—to be able to see in others Jesus’ presence.

And I think that’s what I’ve said—when I come and I see someone I’m having a little hard time with, I try to think:

God has come to dwell with us… to be the one great people of God.

And this sibling of mine in front of me—even though I cannot love this person or this person cannot love me—Jesus is in both of us. And that’s what gives me the strength to keep going and trying.

It’s not easy, Rachel. I—I can tell you. I mean, 30 years of encountering different challenges… just remind me—or make me think—of the new commandment that Jesus has given us, and what God has called us to do and to be as Jesus followers.

Rachel: Well yeah—and like you said—commandment. Like, he didn’t say “This is a suggestion” or a recommendation. He says, “This is a commandment.” And to me, that means I don’t have a choice. Whether I like it or not, if I’m going to be one of God’s people, if I’m going to be a woman of integrity and of faith, then I don’t have a choice. I—I have to do these things.

Pastor Hector: And in your case, how do you think that this commandment, this new commandment, is calling you to do or to be the rest of your life? Or at least to try—as I’m trying to.

Rachel: I don’t know. I just—I stay open. And—and I’m willing. I’m willing to do things whether I want to do it or not. Like, what I think or how I feel has very little to do with it. You know, I just do it.

And then I’m around people that are selfless, that think of others before them. Because I’m naturally—you know me at Bible study—I’m naturally, I can be selfish, I can be judgmental, I can be self-righteous. All those things I can be—without putting God first.

And so, you know, I look at you and how you treat people. My mom—who’s always so selfless. Five to seven other adults, you know, in my life who have raised me, you know, to be that way. And if I want to be like them, if I want to—if I look up to them and I want to be the kind of people they are, I have to do what they did. I have to do what they do.

And so I just—it’s like that “fake it till you make it.” And I know that sounds disingenuous. I wish I could sit up here and just say I’m this selfless person who—it just comes so easy. But it doesn’t. You know, I can be self-serving. But if I am open, and I’m willing, and I want to do the right thing, then I just ask God for help. And I just do the next—the next thing that’s asked of me.

Pastor Hector: So what I hear from you is that you are saying, basically, I need to live with a posture of openness, of willingness to be transformed by God’s love—to be also an inspiration of love for others.

I mean, kind of what David said earlier to our children—as adults, it is only the posture and the willingness to connect with our children that we will be modeling what it means to love one another as the body of Christ.

I believe that we need to support one another in that way. St. Paul talks about talking to each other with words of encouragement. And I think that is also with actions of encouragement. If I approach you, if I walk with you, if I accompany you as a way to show my love to you—or a person is doing that to me—it is only when we see that we do it with one another that I think that that love becomes tangible, inspirational, encouraging, and nurturing.

Rachel: You know what I can tell you just from my experience? You know, I work with teenagers, and anything—like I said, the fake it till you make it—if I act like this certain way… all those things that you just said… My experience has been: anything or anyone that you put your time and your energy into, over and over, you fall in love with. You know? You do.

Pastor Hector: Exactly. Well, I think this is a good segue to come to a closure, because you just said something important:

How can we fall in love with each other?

Maybe we need some dating with each other here.

Rachel: That’s like a whole other topic.

Pastor Hector: We continue wrestling in this journey together.

Love is more than a feeling. It is a way of life modeled by Jesus. Love transforms us. Heals us. Jesus’ love casts out fear from our hearts. Love is a liberating force and power that heals individuals and communities. It’s a communal experience that is reflected in the message that we read in the book of Revelation: God dwells among God’s people. And that means healing and wholeness. It leads us to ask, Why am I doing it? And in the end, it’s a way to let God be God in our lives, for the sake of others.

And this last quote is from my sister Rachel, so thank you Rachel.

Rachel: Yeah, thank you

Pastor Hector: For bringing—and being willing to walk this journey and to wrestle together with this passage.

Rachel: Thank you Pastor.

Pastor Hector: May you continue being an extension of God’s love for others. Thank you.